When to Circumcise and Why

Why time matters if you're opting to make the cut

When to Circumcise and WhyWe had our first son, Bode, circumcised two days after his birth and assumed things would be the same with our second. What we hadn’t anticipated was Beckett’s 11-day stint in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit. By the time I called the doctor a few days after my son’s discharge, I was told to bring him in immediately or she would not perform his circumcision — the surgical procedure to remove the layer of skin (called the foreskin or the prepuce) that covers the head (glans) of the penis and part of the shaft. Who knew there was such a limited time span for circumcisions?

timing is crucial

While the Canadian Paediatric Society does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn boys, if you have decided to have your child circumcised due to personal, religious or cultural reasons, the ideal time to have him circumcised is between 24 and 72 hours after birth. “We don’t recommend before 24 hours because the newborn could have an undiagnosed medical issue and we don’t want to subject him to an elective procedure,” says Dr. Rui Martins, a family physician with privileges at Toronto’s Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre and at Women’s College Hospital where he performs circumcisions. The attending pediatrician or family doctor needs to see your baby prior to any circumcision to ensure the baby is healthy before it is carried out. Once you’ve been given the okay, you should proceed as quickly as possible. In the first few days after birth, babies tend to bleed less and fuss less during a circumcision. Dr. Martins adds, “As the baby grows, the foreskin develops a greater blood supply, which may cause more bleeding during and after circumcision if it is done after two or three weeks of age. This can pose additional risks to the baby,” says Dr. Martins, who does not perform a circumcision once the baby passes two weeks of age if born full-term, adding, “In my view, the decision to circumcise should be made either before the birth or soon after.”

delayed decision

Many doctors believe that after babies reach two weeks of age they become much more aware and experience more discomfort. But, “there is technically no difference between performing a circumcision on a six-month-old and a nine-year-old,” when it comes to trauma and recovery, says Dr. Joao Pippi Salle, chief pediatric urologist at The Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto. The use of an anesthetic during newborn circumcision is debated, but certainly after the first few weeks, doctors agree that circumcision requires a general anesthetic and many doctors don’t like to perform the procedure on any child under five for several reasons, including the problem that younger children will try to touch their penis while it’s healing.

Which brings up the question: If you miss the two-week window, should your child be circumcised at all? Michael LePatourel and his wife Lizelle of Edmonton had their son in Taiwan, where doctors do not perform circumcisions. “I’m circumcised and I would like my son to be as well,” says LePatourel. “But by the time we moved back to Canada, Miguel was almost two. We’re worried it might be too traumatic now [at three and a half].”

Dr. Martins says, “In my view, if the child is doing well I wouldn’t take the risk,” which can include pain and excessive bleeding. And since it’s an elective procedure, you may be bumped for more urgent operations. You can also expect to pay $1,000 to $2,000 for the procedure (newborn circumcisions are about $200).

when to circumcise late

There are a few reasons why a child would benefit from a non-newborn (medical) circumcision. The most common is phimosis, a condition where the foreskin cannot fully retract from the head of the penis. There is some evidence that circumcision can also help boys who are prone to urinary tract infections and/or who have backflow of urine from the bladder to the kidneys. There are studies that show circumcision can lower some cancer rates and reduce the risk of developing a sexually transmitted disease (most notably, a French National Agency for Research on AIDS and Viral Hepatitis study that found three times fewer circumcised participants had acquired HIV compared with control participants). “These are more an issue in countries where there is not the regular use of condoms,” says Dr. Pippi Salle. “I don’t see it as a major “pro circumcision’ reason in Canada.”

Nancy Ripton is a freelance writer and co-founder of justthefactsbaby.com. She lives in Toronto with her husband and two sons.

113 responses to “When to Circumcise and Why”

  1. Hugh Intactive says:

    “I’m circumcised and I would like my son to be as well,” says LePatourel”
    Isn’t his son lucky LePatourel hasn’t lost a hand, or an eye?

    What “personal, religious or cultural” reasons can override a person’s basic human right to decide how much of his own normal, healthy, functional body he gets to keep?

  2. Dale says:

    The focus of ‘when’ in this article takes focus away from the ‘why’. When we as Canadians continue to normalize the mutilation of baby boys, we continue to reinforce violence against vulnerable infants. We must move as a people to protect our children from medical violence and the colonization of babies bodies. None of us has the right to amputate the most sensitive erogenous zone of another person. This is an act steeped in a history of sexism and sacrifice and as many of our bodies were not protected by medical and cultural entitlement, we must take up our duty to protect the bodies of our sons.

  3. Chad Holst says:

    Yes you are absolutely right. Let us all take up arms and oppose such atrocities as getting our young daughters ears pierced.

  4. Al Mado says:

    If you had a focus group where one hundred sets of parents allowed their sons to reach an age of consent — let’s say 16, which is old enough to drive — and then you asked those one hundred boys, “Okay, who wants to have their foreskin cut off?” — all one hundred of them would say, “Are you out of your MIND?” We all know this to be true. Not a single one of them would choose to be circumcised. And for those parents that really want them to have it done, well, maybe you could show them a video of a circumcision being performed. Mayybe that would help them make up their mind, maybe that would convince them to have it done. But of course, we know what would happen then. Such a film would only make them faint — or vomit. Maybe parents considering doing this to their infant sons should ask themselves that question: “Would he allow me to have this done to him if he were 16?” No, he wouldn’t — and you know he wouldn’t. So why are you doing it to him?

  5. Steven says:

    This is hardly the same thing as getting ears pierced. Reality check.

  6. Hearmenow says:

    get a life and stop acting like that gross little flap of skin is the end all be all of male sexual pleasure. enjoy your urinary tract infection, stds just so you can have that ugly, stinky bit of skin covering your penis head that your so proud of (and all the germs and bacteria hiding under there as well) and most evey girl that you’re with wishing that your parents werent such wimps and that they had the common sense to have ypu circumsized. it seems to mostly be uncircumsised (intact, sorry) men that are all up in arms about this, the ones that get a late in life circumsion rarely of ever complain of any negative affects, on fact just the opposite..do some research past the first three pages on google people!

  7. Kaynejack . says:

    Let’s talk about that “little flap of skin”, shall we?

    First, the foreskin IS the most sensitive part of the penis. Several scientific papers have demonstrated this. But even more telling, is that circumcision was introduced to western cultures during the Victorian era to curb (and/or make more difficult) both masturbation and sex. That should tell you what you need to know about why that particular little flap of skin was first targeted for removal.

    Next, let’s talk about that bacteria. Bacteria lives in every square inch of human flesh. There is bacteria in the mouth, in the stomach, under the eyelids, in the colon, living in every hair follicle, etcetera. Not all bacteria is bad, and if you ever bothered to investigate WHAT bacteria live under the foreskin, you would never want anyone to lose their benefits.

    The bacterium beneath the foreskin help protect men against infection, disease, and even viruses. It is very telling when you look to other countries that do not circumcise. Japan, China, The Netherlands, Germany, England (The list goes on.) They all (every one of them) have less cases of HPV transmission, Less cases of HIV, less cases of STDs and STIs, less cases of penile cancers, less cases of sexual dysfunction in adulthood. Ask yourself, why is it that the countries that leave the penis alone, have less problems with the penis, and other penis diseases? Answer; Because they leave it alone!

    When you cut off the foreskin you do far more damage than you solve. It may well be that you solve NOTHING AT ALL.

    All of the things that circumcision is currently supposed to help with are contested in the scientific literature. there is not one clear cut benefit. NOT ONE! Even the Canadian Cancer Society, and the American Cancer society have both released statements that circumcision does NOT prevent penile cancer.

    The circumcision prevents UTI argument has been destroyed on two fronts. 1) girls get UTIs 3 times more frequently than boys, and treatment for them is oral antibiotics. Boys can benefit from this treatment just as effectively as girls, so there is no reason to go under the knife. 2) Meatal Stenosis has been shown to occur in 1 out of 10 circumcised boys. 50% of those will have an accompanying UTI. That means 5 out of 100 circumcised boys will develop a UTI before the age of 12, where only 1 out of 100 uncircumcised boys will develop a UTI. In other words, circumcision INCREASES the odds of your boy having a UTI. The scientific article suggesting UTIs and foreskins are connected was seriously flawed and has since been soundly debunked.

    Also, Meatal Stenosis means your circumcised boy will need to undergo a second painful surgery to correct what his circumcision caused. Intact children do not get Meatal Stenosis unless they are catheterized, or routinely forcibly retracted.

    Phismosis is another false diagnosis for children. Phismosis cannot be diagnosed until AFTER the child has gone through puberty. Some children cannot fully retract their foreskins before the age of 15 to 17. Only after this time can true Phismosis be diagnosed, and even then 99 out of 100 males can be cured of it through either simple stretching exercises and/or application of a steroidal cream. You would have to circumcise 10,000 children to prevent just one case of true phismosis.

    Most issues with the penis of a child are actually caused by the parent/caregiver, or doctor of the child who believe that they must forcibly retract the foreskin to clean underneath. This is completely false. The only person who should ever retract the foreskin of a child’s penis, is the child himself, and only when his body is ready. Until after puberty, and when the boy becomes sexually active, no special cleaning is required. Smegma might seem disgusting, but it is sterile, and in no way life or health threatening. Leave it alone, and it will pass out naturally. Never let anyone retract your child’s foreskin for any reason. All you will do is injure your child. All you need to do is teach your child that when it does retract, he should rinse it with clean water when he bathes or showers. Believe me, boys are happy to pay extra attention to this area when they bathe. It is not a problem.

    I don’t know how many men you have talked to who received “late in life” circumcisions, but the ones I talked with call circumcision the worst decision of their lives. I know many who are attempting to restore their lost foreskins. The loss of sexual function is dramatic and actually worse for those who know what they are missing. Either way, both you and I are using anecdotal evidence. Studies have conclusively shown that the foreskin is by far the most sensitive part of the penis. It is many times more light touch sensitive than even the tips of the fingers or tongue. It is well known ( and easy to look up and track) that the greatest sales of drugs like V-iagra are sold to the countries that routinely circumcise most of itheir male population. The same goes for sales of artificial sexual lubricants, and anti-depression medication. Correlation does not always mean causation, but in this case, the science and evidence is piling up to where it can no longer be ignored. The foreskin is vital for a healthy sex life in males.

    Please follow your own advice and read past the first few pages of a Google search. In fact, I suggest abandoning Google altogether and reading some actual books on the function and purpose of the foreskin. You’ll be VERY surprised just how vital this part of the male body really is.

    Circumcision is a cure looking for a disease. Over the history of circumcision in the west almost every one of it’s benefits have been soundly debunked as wishful thinking (at best) and pure quackery (at worst). The current list of “benefits” has grown VERY short, and ALL are contested in the scientific literature, or simply do not bear out in real world evaluations. (example. The highest rates of HIV infection in developed countries is in the USA. They also have the highest rates of infant male circumcision.)

    Just because I brought up the supposed HIV protection study in Africa, I should discuss it. Better yet, you should read it for yourself. In their conclusion, the authors write that circumcision provides no conclusive protection, and that condoms should still be the prevention method of choice. That means you can either wear a condom, and get 99.9% protection, or you can be circumcised, still wear a condom, and get 99.9 % protection.

    There are a lot of other flaws with that study, but I’ve already gone on too long.

    The point is, read about what you are actually doing when you circumcise a healthy child. The worst of it is, studies have shown that babies DO remember the pain, and it affects them developmentally for years to come. It is a net negative, and it should be HIS choice whether to have it done or not.

    Let him choose for himself if it is good or not. Let him decide if the arguments for it are worth it. Girls have that right, why shouldn’t we extend those rights to boys as well?

  8. Marek says:

    Let us also not forget the principal function of the foreskin, which is to protect a woman’s vagina during intercourse.

  9. Benjamin says:

    Oh my God people, it’s a flap of skin. I’m circumcised and if I had the choice to get my foreskin back I’d say hell no. Yes it’s sensitive and adds to sexual pleasure but as the article says, 3x more UTI’s and STD’s. If you guys don’t want to circumcise your children, fine. But if I want to, and my neighbour wants to, and OH! the vast majority of Canadians and people on the damned planet want to, leave them alone. It’s not killing the boy, it’s not going to cause them life-long pain and discomfort. It’s a minor alteration for medically beneficial reasons, plus it’s easier to maintenance and if I may say so, looks much better. Have a nice day, and stop shoving your thoughts on “the mutilation of baby boys” down people’s throats.

  10. Kaynejack . says:

    No. Not just a “flap of skin”. There are many unique structures in the foreskin that are lost to circumcision. And having a foreskin does not “add to sexual pleasure.” Having a foreskin is the default level of sexual pleasure. A circumcised man can never feel that. He will always feel a lesser amount. He is robbed of experiencing sex the way his body was intended to experience it.

    And, keep in mind that the chances of contracting a UTI or STD is already very low, and the “protection of circumcision” only lowers that already low number by somewhere between 1 and 3 %. And the science that shows this is highly contested as it is. Likely circumcision provides no real benefit at all. But, if it does it would alter the chances of getting an STD or UTI from 1 in 100 to 2 in 100. The majority of those circumcised 98 to 99% will never see a benefit.

    “the vast majority of Canadians and people on the damned planet” do NOT circumcise their baby boys. In Canada the rates of circumcision nationwide have fallen to around 15%, and in some provinces are virtually nil. In the USA the rates have fallen to about 50%, and are continuing to fall dramatically. Of the population of men on this earth, only somewhere between 20 and 30% are circumcised. Most of that is in Muslim countries, none of which site “medical benefits” for the reason they do it.

    Many circumcisions DO in fact cause lifelong pain. Mine did. The doctor removed too much skin (which is very common because the infant penis has no marks indicating where to cut.) I have had painful erections my entire life. I have had skin adhesions, skin bridges, and it has deeply affected my sex life, and self esteem. Therefore circumcision can and does cause ” life-long pain and discomfort.”

    As to the circumcised penis being “easier to maintain,” you are sadly mistaken. There is no special cleaning required of the intact penis. A parent need only clean the outside of the penis. That’s it. When the child becomes an adolescent, and the foreskin naturally retracts on its own, then the child need only pull the skin back briefly, and rinse off with clean water when they bathe or shower. Easier to clean than the dirt under your fingernails, or the wax in your ears.

    For the record, removal of healthy vital body parts without a medical indication IS mutilation. And people who have a conscience recognize that circumcision fits the description of mutilation. That doctors do it in a sterile environment does not make it any less of a mutilation.

    If you are happy that you are circumcised, then good for you. You, as an adult can choose that for yourself. No one will begrudge an adult that choice for himself. What we despise is forcing it on a helpless infant who is powerless to resist. If you let the child alone, and leave him intact as nature intended, then he can always choose to be circumcised later, when he is an adult. The procedure is no more complicated for an adult than it is for a baby. As an added benefit, the adult can choose which and how much skin he get to keep, and he can have the adequate pain management which a baby is denied.

    As to “looks better.” I can only shake my head in the wonder of that statement. To me, a circumcised penis looks mutilated. The glans which is supposed to be an internal organ is exposed, (Yuck) and there is a nasty scar circling an otherwise tender and delicate body part. That does not look “much better.” It looks horrible, and sad. When I see a baby boy’s sex organs so modified, it makes me want to cry out in horror.

    The foreskin is a part of your child’s body. It is no less important than a finger or an ear. Cutting it off for minimal to no benefit for the child is horrible. Even if there is a tiny benefit, is it really worth depriving your child of the body he was born with? Most of the world doesn’t think it is worth it, and neither do a growing section here in North America.

    Informing you of the reality, is hardly “shoving it down your throat.”

  11. Tom says:

    If by “vast majority” of Canadians you mean 32% and of the world you mean 15%, then yup that’s the “vast majority” lol. Oh and you’re supposed to say they get numbed for it, not that there is pain but you don’t care.

  12. Tom says:

    It’s funny how you don’t realize you’re the idiot here lol. Urinary tract infections affect 1% of intact males and only as babies. Unprotected sex causes stds, not foreskins lol which 85% of men have and their girlfriends love it.

  13. hearmenow says:

    Protect her vagina how exactly? By putting her at a much greater risk for infections?

    Come on now people, get real here..there are obviously pros and cons to both sides..the uncut (or natural) guy feels a (debatable) degree more pleasure than his circumsized counterpart. The cut guy looks better (to 99% of north american women), smells better, is cleaner and safer for women, and all around more desirable sexually.

    As for the gentleman falsely proclaming percentages (please do your research), and thinking women enjoy the foreskin..i should not have to remind you that people say whatever they must to make their partners feel good about themselves.

    To end on a side note, I’ve been with two British women whom were both relieved and delighted to see I was cut (mutilated) and shared their disdain for the foreskin with me.

    To all my uncut brethren, please do enjoy your forsskins ad you’re most likely the only ones doing so, but please take care to not make our women sick if you must put (a little extra) pleasure before the healty and desire of your partners.

    Thanks for reading all, now let the foreskin fetishists have back at it.

  14. Does it matter says:

    I’m circumcised, I don’t see what the big deal is? Had it since birth, Im not mad, or anything, infact I think a penis looks better this way anyways and plenty of woman I’ve been with agree, plus it doesnt hurt that I get lower chance of STDs, I can have orgasms just fine and sex feels great. I don’t get why all these people are up in arms, Its one of those trivial things that doesnt actually really matter, I’m not mutilated or broken or have anything wrong with me. I have a circumcised penis. and ofcourse no-one would choose to get something removed after 16 years, I mean, I’m sure some do, but I can see why, If I had a second thumb at 16 that my parents let me keep at birth I wouldn’t get it removed. So that argument is invalid. Just because it’s not you cup of tea, you can’t tell people how to live their life and raise their children. I plan on getting my son circumcised if or when I ever have one, it’s just the way I am. and I’m sure He’ll be just fine with it, the way 100% of people who are circumcised are.

  15. Kaynejack . says:

    No. 100% of people are NOT just fine with it. The older you get, the more layers of Keritinization you will have, and the less you will feel. Men with intact penises don’t have to worry about this. More and more men are realizing what they are missing.

    Condom use prevents STDs, NOT circumcision. The STD argument is over. It was a false argument, and wasn’t even used as a reason to circumcise 40 years ago. The reasons for circumcision keep changing, but people keep cutting babies.

    If you are happy with your status of having an incomplete penis, then good for you. I am truly happy for you. However, I and a lot of other men are not happy about having the most erogenous and sensitive portion of our penis removed. It was taken WITHOUT our consent and it should never have been done. I am not happy, so right there I can tell you, 100% of men don’t appreciate their circumcision.

    The majority of the world is moving away from circumcision, and you are arguing for it, merely on the basis of, that it is what you are used to. Culture is NOT a valid medical excuse for surgery.

    The foreskin is NOT like having an “extra thumb”. It is EXACTLY like being born with just the two thumbs you have now, but your parents decided to cut one or both of them off. You might never know any different, or know what life is like with both thumbs, but that doesn’t make it right that they should remove a healthy part of your body merely because they thought you would look better with no thumbs.

    Circumcised penises do not look better to most of the world. To most of the world, you look like an amputee, missing a very important part. You might be happy with how you look, but that is not a reason to perform cosmetic surgery on an infant. Are you going to cosmetically alter your future child so ALL of his body matches yours? If you have a broken nose, will you break his, so he matches you?

    Your child will be in the minority if you cut him. He will not thank you for cutting him, when 85% of his friends still have all the penis they were born with, and he does not.

    If an adult wouldn’t choose to alter his body, what makes it all right for his parents to force those alterations on him when he is a baby? It just doesn’t make any sense.

  16. Circumcision Resources says:

    An intact man hardly ever needs any lube. Cut man<s penis is like a dagger. Search Sex as Nature Intended It.

  17. Circumcision Resources says:

    Another one who is in denial over his own circumcision status. You simply do NOT know what you are missing. Search >What is lost -Circumcision> to see.

  18. Circumcision Resources says:

    In Canada, if you cut a girl, you go to jail. If you cut a boy, you cut a check! Baby boys deserve the SAME protection as baby girls. Anything less is sexist and discriminatory, and violates Charter rights to bodily integrity, as well as freedom FROM religion. Your right to your religion ENDS where another person’s (yes, even a baby’s) right to bodily integrity begins.

    Intelligent people can realize that genital cutting of vulnerable, non-consenting minors, be they male or female, is wrong. And the intactivists, unlike the money-hungry doctors, have absolutely nothing to gain from pushing the rights of children to keeping their whole bodies.

    The bottom line is that not one national medical organisation in the world recommends routine infant circumcision. NOT ONE. There is no REASON to cut healthy, living tissue off a newborn.The foreskin has a function, which is why GOD or NATURE (whichever you believe) put it there.

    God does not make mistakes. And evolution does not make mistakes either (for every single male mammal to be BORN with a foreskin, there is a reason. He was “BORN THIS WAY”!) (Indeed, if you are Christian, you need not, rather MUST NOT circumcise.) Do you see rats, dogs, horses, elephants, dolphins and lions all dying from allegedly “faulty” or STD-causing foreskins?

  19. ml66uk says:

    Even if circumcision was a good idea, doing it right after birth is the worst possible time since :
    a) you have to separate the foreskin from the glans (the most painful part of the procedure – think of removing your thumbnails only worse). This also results in adhesions, skin tags and skin bridges. If you wait a few years, then the foreskin separates naturally. This also results in better cosmetic results.
    b) it’s smaller so more chance of a seriously botched job. It’s very rare, but some babies die or suffer amputations because of circumcision (google “David Reimer” and read about his/her story if you don’t know what I’m talking about)
    c) you can’t use general anesthetic on a newborn, so it hurts more. Watch a video of an operation if you don’t know how much it hurts. Just because babies don’t remember, it doesn’t mean it hasn’t affected them. They have more problems breastfeeding, and also show more reaction to injections years later.
    d) newborns don’t have much of an immune system, so they can die of things that are harmless to adults or older children. A baby died after circumcision in New York recently of the coldsore virus for instance, and another got brain damage.
    e) a newborn can die of blood loss after losing about three tablespoons of blood – way less than will be absorbed by a modern diaper.
    f) a newborn can’t tell you if he actually wants to have the most sensitive part of his penis removed or not. It’s HIS body after all.
    g) Meatal stenosis is almost exclusively seen in males circumcised as infants.
    h) “For studies including boys born after 1995, there was a strong correlation between country-level (n = 9) autism/ASD prevalence in males and a country’s circumcision rate (r = 0.98). A very similar pattern was seen among U.S. states and when comparing the 3 main racial/ethnic groups in the U.S.”

    There are only two countries in the world where more than 50% of newborn boys are circumcised – Israel and (at 54% and dropping) the USA. Other countries circumcise, but later in life, usually anywhere from around seven years old to puberty or adolescence.

  20. Dreamer says:

    If the skin of your penis cannot glide over your glans, if your frenulum is not intact (and do you even know if it is intact or not, or if it’s missing?), if you are missing the ridged band (hint: all circumcised males are missing it!), then your sexuality has been affected whether you know it or not.

    Sure you enjoy sex. I do. We all do. But we will never know what the ridged band could have done, how sex could have gone from just fine to wow.

    As a man in the process of foreskin restoration, I can tell you that skin mobility totally changes how orgasms are achieved and how they feel. But this is something you can’t understand unless you experience it for yourself.

    The ridged band can’t be restored though, nor the frenulum can be fixed.

  21. Dreamer says:

    Nancy Ripton learned that there is a different protocol for newborn circumcision and late circumcision during childhood. One reason Dr. Martin gave her is that “babies tend to bleed less and fuss less during a circumcision”.

    A problem with newborn circumcisions is the risk of bleeding, because babies have less blood. In fact, this happen to Ryleigh McWillis from the British Columbia in 2002. The parents were told to look for bleeding but they didn’t know how much bleeding was too much, and this caused the dead of their dear baby.

    Less blood may also mean higher risk for cardiac arrest. A baby died in Israel in May of this year after a Jewish bris. The baby appeared to stop breathing shortly after the procedure, but the media refuses to acknowledge the role of the circumcision, citing instead a possible unknown pre-existing condition.

    The use of anesthetic may be debated, but the pain of circumcision is not subject of debate. Listen to the cries, observe the face of a baby, and you won’t have any doubt.

    You say delaying brings up the question of whether the child should be circumcised at all, and Michael says he is circumcised and he wants his son to be as well. The actual question is why should a baby be circumcised in absence of any disease, condition or abnormality?

    Is there a logic to subjecting a baby to amputation of healthy normal tissue that does not represent a threat to the baby’s well being?

    Isn’t it obvious that cutting a part of the penis affects the sexual experience and reduces pleasure? It was obvious for Jewish philosophers and physicians in the 1st century (Philo), and later in the 12th century (Maimonides), and it was obvious for the American and British physicians that advocated circumcision (and clitoridectomy) to punish and discourage masturbation (of boys and girls) in the late 19th century and early 20th (see J.H. Kellogg).

    The $200-$2000 cost of circumcision can be incredibly increased if your son happens to be the unlucky one to develop a complication requiring corrective surgery. Penile denudation, buried penis, penile adhesions, skin bridges, lacerations and partial amputation of the glans (specially with the method favored by Dr. Pollock and his disciples, the Mogen clamp). Or the possibility of too much skin removed, resulting in painful erections and sex as an adult.

    Phimosis is not an indication for infant circumcision. Most babies are born with physiological phimosis, it’s a natural condition for that age, because the foreskin and the glans have not separated completely. Separation takes years, and retraction often becomes possible in the 10-17 years range. Operating for phimosis before adulthood is like giving a baby a denture because he is toothless.

    Urinary backflow is not cured by circumcision. Those babies often need surgical correction of the ACTUAL problem.

    Penile cancer hardly qualifies as prevention, given the low incidence of the disease. The AAP estimates that 909 to 322,000 circumcisions are needed to prevent a single event, and that comes at the cost of 2 to 909 complications, some of which can be severe and life long. It’s in the AAP’s Technical Report on Circumcision, the one people don’t bother to read before repeating the marketing propaganda.

    Circumcision as HIV prevention doesn’t measure as well, as has been found out by Zimbabwe and Nyanza in recent days. Safe sex, abstinence, monogamy and low promiscuity are important measures. Circumcision is a distraction.

    A group of international physicians, including Canadians, has published an article criticizing the AAP’s Policy Statement as culturally biased and scientifically unsound.

    What is the price of self-determination and bodily integrity? How many studies are needed to override the empowerment to decide over one’s own body? Self-ownership?

    Forced infant circumcision (prepucectomy) is an unethical, unnecessary and risky residual of the Victorian era, justified with overinflated health benefits and overlooked risks and harm.

    The foreskin has sexual functions. It’s removal permanently alters the sexual experience, by damaging the frenulum, removing the ridged band, limiting the skin mobility and subjecting the glans to gradual keratinization. But those interested in promoting the procedure won’t discuss the anatomy and functions of the foreskin, or the harms that I just mentioned.

  22. Dreamer says:

    Promiscuity and unsafe sex is what gives you STDs, not the presence of foreskin.

    You say if you guys don’t want to circumcise your children. But what about those children who grow up to wish they were not circumcised? Can you give them back their foreskin? No, it’s a permanent body alteration inflicted with the permission of the parents.

    You accuse us from shoving our thoughts… How about you consenting to carving your sons’ dicks?

  23. Dreamer says:

    If you wouldn’t have unprotected sex with a stranger without a condom, then the STD argument is nothing but a weak rationalization to feel better about a permanent wound inflicted to you by a doctor with the permission of your parents.

  24. Dreamer says:

    One thing I will give Nancy. The graphic chosen to represent circumcision is quite fitting. English speaking countries practice of circumcision: cutting the edge of the sexual experience of your children for over 150 years.

  25. hearmenow says:

    A) Look into the rates of infection and cervical cancer of women of uncut/intact male parners. Most people don’t like to use condoms when in a serious relationship. Think about it…

    B) Research the meaning of the word “wound”..

    I really think all of you intactivists need to know more of what you talk about. I don’t have a foreskin and have neither any want or intention of having one ..i can understand being scared of surgery so I dont promote adults to get it done either. Be happy with what you have..I know I am (and anyone that wants to convince me that I shouldn’t be is mean spirited and as evil as they claim the curcumsizing doctors are) Enjoy your forskins and i’ll enjoy a happy and healthy sex life as I have been my for my adult life.

    Good luck all

  26. ml66uk says:

    a) A 2003 paper in the Israeli Medical Association Journal discusses circumcision and cervical cancer at length and says the following: “Although the dispute over the association of circumcision and cervical cancer in various populations is still ongoing, there seems to be no hard evidence that circumcision prevents its occurrence in Jewish women, and it is no longer considered to play a protective role.”

    b) “A wound is a type of injury in which skin is torn, cut, or punctured (an open wound), or where blunt force trauma causes a contusion (a closed wound).” Circumcision definitely seems to fit that bill. There’s also a permanent scar left.

  27. newmom says:

    I feel ashamed that boys in my country are second class citizens. I have a little boy and he was born perfect so I kept him that way. Why would a new mother allow her perfect son to be hurt? Why would she alter his penis? Why would she put a mark on him he sees every time he looks down at his penis? Why would she risk him dying from this?

  28. Dreamer says:

    Correct, look at the rate of HPV among circumcised males in the United States, that should tell you something.

    Most of Latin America, where circumcision is not prevalent, has lower rate of HIV than the more technologically advanced and financially sound United States in spite of the circumcision rates. That should tell you something.

    Cutting a part of the body leaves behind a wound. Ripping apart the epithelium that joins the glans and the foreskin leaves a raw glans that was still not ready to separate from the protection of the foreskin. Every circumcised male has a circumcision scar, the permanent mark of the circumcision wound.

    I’m glad that you enjoy what you have – far from me to wish you otherwise. I wish I could enjoy my foreskin, but alas, it was cut off by a doctor who didn’t know that physiological phimosis is a normal condition of childhood, in spite of my screams and feeble attempt to escape. I was left with an asymmetric scar and a sadly scarred frenulum remnant, not unlike those of other fellow circumcised males. I did have a happy sexual life though. But I am aware now of what I was missing.

    Good luck to you too.

  29. TLCTugger says:

    How non-factual, at an OBVIOUS level. Like, there is of course a huge difference between cutting a 9-year old and a 6-month old; namely DIAPERS. Cutting in infancy is absurdly haphazard because of healing in diapers.

    In any case, it is unethical to do cosmetic amputations from healthy boys without their consent.

  30. Circumcision Resources says:

    Well said Al Mado!

  31. FrederickRhodes says:

    Us guys with circumcised peni have rough masculine keratinized glans from having our glans exposed. This causes less sensation and increases the time it takes us to reach orgasm so we can have sex longer. On the other hand, the women married to us circumcised guys get more wear and tear causing infections in their vaginas, caused from the vaginal erosion from our calloused rough glans.
    Women married to us circumcised men die off faster at younger ages than women of intact men, except in industrialized countries where total hysterectomies are covered by insurance companies. These women are living longer and being able to tell their grand daughters that it was a mistake to allow their sons to become circumcised to prevent their daughters from getting STD’s.
    All the benefits from infant circumcision are based on ignorance of the neurological functions and development, proper care, use, and hygiene of both sexes prepuces from infancy through puberty to adulthood.
    Also with the knowledge of the neurological functions and location of the frenulum delta nerves in the male and female prepuces, religious and medical circumcisors can been taught how to use infant circumcision as population control, racial and religious hygiene, ethnic cleancing, by cutting out these nerves in infancy to cause sexual dysfunctions to show up after puberty without the parents knowledge. It is a form of witchcraft that can be used to cause sexual dysfunction on purpose to undesirable men as infnats. Some of us end up with excessive nerve damage, shaft skin excision, and ugly scarring leading toerectile dysfunction and suicidal depression after puberty.

  32. RolandDay says:

    It is amazing that Nancy Ripton, who is co-founder of Just the facts baby .com has left out so many important facts. For example she did not tell us what the foreskin is and what it does.

    The foreskin is a complex double-layered
    structure composed of smooth muscle fiber, skin, mucosa, nerves, arteries, and
    veins. It is natural, normal, healthy, and its possession contributes to a
    sense of well-being. The foreskin has protective, sensory, sexual, and
    immunological functions. It is loaded with nerves and is the site of most of
    the penile sensation. The foreskin is a “specific erogenous zone.” The foreskin
    is essential for normal intercourse. Foreskin provides the additional skin
    needed to allow for penile expansion during erection. Amputation of the
    foreskin, which is an integral and important part of the penis, has very
    significant adverse sexual and emotional effects.

    She might have informed her readers that all Canadian HIPs stopped paying for this unnecessary, outmoded, non-therapeutic amputation decades ago.

    She might have informed her readers that less than 1/3 of Canadian boys are suffering circumcision today and that genital integrity is the norm in every province.

    There are many other significant omissions and inaccuracies in this lamentable article. No one should rely on the sad bit of journalism.

  33. raven says:

    dose it cost money to get your child circumcised? an if so how much? its not my religion but its my husbands to do so …

  34. Dave Saving says:

    I would also like to know the answer to this; my wife is a Brunei Muslim that wants to remove our daughter’s foreskin (clitoral hood) at 2 months old because it’s part of her religion. My wife had her foreskin removed as a baby and she is fine with it, she says she enjoys sex immensely plus she is cleaner, it reduces STD’s, cancer and UTI’s. Does it cost money to have my daughter circumcised, where can we get one in Canada?

  35. raven says:

    ive never hared anything back dave…. also ive don’t some re-surch an I think your only suppose do to circumcised when you child is a new born I think two month old is to big but not fully sure

  36. ml66uk says:

    I don’t think Dave was being serious, or at least I hope not. Female circumcision is illegal in Canada, even for adults.

    As far as male circumcision goes, most places where men are circumcised, they don’t do it to babies. There are just two countries where more than half of baby boys are circumcised – the USA (at 55% and dropping), and Israel. Very few Muslim boys are circumcised as babies.

    Most places don’t circumcise at all though. How about you let your son decide for himself? There’s no reason not to wait.

  37. Dave Saving says:

    You are correct ml66uk, I was being facetious. Sometimes it helps to let women think about how they would feel if they had their foreskin removed without their consent (and they do have a foreskin, aka clitoral hood).

  38. raven says:

    oh I never hured of a women being circumcised….. an im new with this.. this is my first son an I want whats best an a lot of people told me circumcising my son will be good an a lot cleaning an will have less of a chance of getting an infections.. also his father an my father are circumcised… I just want whats best… an I respect my husbands region that’s why I am planning on going threw with it…

  39. ml66uk says:

    (I tried posting this earlier with supporting links, but it didn’t go through, so I’m posting again without the links. Sorry if it appears twice.)

    Circumcision isn’t mentioned anywhere in the Qur’an, but these passages are all in there.

    He created everything in exact measure; He precisely designed everything
    (25:2)
    He designed you, and designed you well.
    (40:64)
    He created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, designed you and perfected your design.
    (64:3)
    He created man in the best design.
    (95:4)

    Almost no Muslim males are circumcised as babies. It’s usually anywhere from the age of around seven to puberty.

    Circumcising for health reasons doesn’t seem to make sense. This is what the Canadian Paediatric Society says for example:

    “Recommendation: Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed.”
    “Circumcision is a ‘non-therapeutic’ procedure, which means it is not medically necessary.”
    “After reviewing the scientific evidence for and against circumcision, the CPS does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn boys. Many paediatricians no longer perform circumcisions.”

  40. Marc says:

    This is a barbaric and disgusting practice. Has the author of this post even seen a circumcision? Not to mention that circumcision violates section 12 of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms: “Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.” Circumcision is cruel and unusual treatment, medically unnecessary, and causes the infant EXCRUCIATING pain.

  41. Rana pipiens says:

    No one, male or female, should be circumcised before they are able to make that choice for themselves. Mutilating the genitals of a baby is irreversible sexual assault and is not the decision of the parents. You don’t think it’s sexual assault? – look in the Charter of Rights and explain to me why an exception is made for males but not females.

  42. cqubit says:

    What percentage of men circumcised as children feel they are missing something and long for a foreskin?

    Is it “barbaric” to poke to holes in your daughter’s body with a sharp metal object for aesthetic reasons she had no say in?
    Ear rings anyone?

    Rwanda recently launched a government circumcision campaign supported by the World Health Organization because it has been shown effective in fighting HIV.

  43. ml66uk says:

    There are probably more men than you’d think who are unhappy about being circumcised. Conversely, there are plenty of circumcised women who can’t understand what all the fuss is about and are keen to cut their daughters.

    I’m against ear piercing without consent too, but it doesn’t remove erogenous tissue, the holes normally heal up, and I’ve never heard of anyone dying or having a sex change because of an ear piercing going wrong.

    Rwanda is a good example of how irrational those promoting male circumcision are. Rwandan men are *more* likely to have HIV if they’ve been circumcised:
    2.1% of intact Rwandan men have HIV
    3.5% of circumcised Rwandan men have HIV

    82% of men and 92% of women aged 15-49 say they’ve never used a condom.
    So how can it make any sense for Rwanda to start a mass circumcision programme?

  44. cqubit says:

    Your statistics demonstrate flawed reasoning. Look up Simpson’s paradox. All things being equal, circumcision has been shown to reduce HIV infection rates. I am baffled how you think you are a better authority on this than the World Health Organization.

    Opposing male circumcision is just a matter of irrational visceral disgust, not any well thought out reasons.

    You will find a few cases of ear piercing leading to infection and complications, and of women who find the unsightly scar left to be a symbol of oppressive patriarchy. Let’s ban ear piercing for their sake, shall we?

  45. ml66uk says:

    I’m aware of Simpson’s Paradox, but there are several other African countries where the circumcised men have higher rates of HIV. From a USAID report:
    “There appears no clear pattern of association between male circumcision and HIV prevalence—in 8 of 18 countries with data, HIV prevalence is lower among circumcised men, while in the remaining 10 countries it is higher.”

    If male circumcision really helped significantly against HIV, this simply wouldn’t happen. There might be one or two or three countries where the circumcised men had higher rates of HIV, but not 10 out of 18. Where men are circumcised for religious reasons, they would normally have fewer sexual partners too. Since a large majority of Rwandan men and women have never used a condom, then how can it make sense to be funding MC to fight HIV anyway? There are plenty of Africans that have never seen a condom, so why is so much funding going to genital surgery of questionable effectiveness?

    It seems highly unrealistic to expect that there will be no risk compensation. The South African National Communication Survey on HIV/AIDS, 2009 found that 15% of adults across age groups “believe that circumcised men do not need to use condoms”.

    It is unclear if circumcised HIV+ men are more likely to infect women. The only ever randomized controlled trial into male-to-female transmission showed a 54% higher rate in the group where the men had been circumcised.

    Recent news from Botswana
    “There is an upsurge of cases of people who got infected with HIV following circumcision.”

    and from Zimbabwe:
    “SOME circumcised men are contracting HIV and Aids after ditching the use of condoms, under a misguided belief that male circumcision (MC) would prevent them from getting infected”

    If opposition to male circumcision is simply a matter of “irrational visceral disgust”, does that mean that all the national medical organizations that oppose it don’t have any well thought out reasons? Is it just irrational visceral disgust that means that even a pinprick on a girl’s genitals is banned?

    Personally, I wouldn’t have a problem with ear piercing being banned, but I don’t think it’s comparable with removal of genital tissue, and like I said, I don’t think there’s any risk of death or penile amputation involved. Those risks are very rare, but why should they happen at all?

  46. cqubit says:

    If some people misunderstand that circumcision makes them immune to HIV, the solution is education, not banning it.

    From the World Health Organization: “There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%. Three randomized controlled trials have shown that male circumcision provided by well trained health professionals in properly equipped settings is safe. WHO/UNAIDS recommendations emphasize that male circumcision should be considered an efficacious intervention for HIV prevention in countries and regions with heterosexual epidemics, high HIV and low male circumcision prevalence.”

    The far more compelling evidence is in favour of the procedure. Perhaps the explanation of the fanatical desire by some to ban it is an emotional or ideological opposition. The most vocal opponents tend to be secular activists opposed to the religious connotations of the practice, and hence the “visceral disgust”.

    This isn’t new, Romans back in the day were uphauled by the Jews for the same reason, and saw it as a representation of their “backwards” culture.

  47. ml66uk says:

    I’m all too aware of the WHO’s position, and I’ve outlined some of the reasons I think it’s wrong. It’s worth noting that they don’t mention that there has only ever been one RCT into male-to-female HIV transmission and that it showed a higher rate of transmission in the circumcised group.

    The far more compelling evidence to me seems to be against the procedure, and I’d regard the promotion of MC as fairly fanatical. Many of the people promoting it in Africa (mostly circumcised men) have a long history of promoting it in developed countries too though most national medical organizations are against it.

    It baffles me that PSI are trying to raise 2 billion dollars to circumcise males in countries where some people haven’t even heard of condoms and aren’t even aware that having fewer sexual partners reduces the risk of HIV. Meanwhile, AIDS killed an estimated 1.6 million people worldwide in 2012, but an estimated 2.2 million children under five died from pneumonia, diarrheal diseases and malaria.

    There are plenty of religious people against circumcision btw, and a disproportionate number of Jewish men and women, some of them very vocal.

  48. FrederickRhodes says:

    After WW2, The World Health Organization was funded by the Rothschild family, so of course they would be compelled to believe the studies they paid for and to promote their religious covenant prepuce sacrifice.
    The Romans were so viscerally discusted by this backward false god worshipping cult’s ritual of sexually traumatising and causing sexual dysfunction to infants, that they Holocausted every living Jewish male out of Judea, leaving behind only the Jewesses whom they raped. These Jewesses were forced to take over as Rabbis, Mohels, and Pharisees until their halfbreed sons could become mature. That’s why the Jews have the Diaspora, and only children born to Jewesses are concidered to be Jewish. Abraham’s Y chromosome is extinct. The children of Jews who marry shiksas are not concidered true Jews. It’s a zionist chosen racial thing.

    What the circumcisers don’t want us to know is that they know how to use infant circumcision to play god as population control, ethic cleancing, religious and racial hygiene, by cutting the G spot/frenulum delta nerves out of the boys they don’t want to become breeders so the boy will develop sexual dysfunctions after puberty, without the parents knowledge. This is their ulterior motive to prevent HIV. They believe the inferior Africans genes cannot develop immunities to HIV, like many European genes so they intend to make them go extinct, using their men to spread HIV faster by causing vaginal erosion to their women with the keratinized glans of their circumcised peni.. They did the same thing to us US Catholic boys, fooling our parents into committing infant circumcision with claims of health benifits.

  49. ml66uk says:

    I’m against forced circumcision, but I disagree with pretty much all of what you’ve written.

  50. thankfully intact says:

    I just had a son in Canada who informed us that 30 years ago 1 in 10 babies were left intact, current statistics in Canada are that 1 in 10 get the cut. I was born in NZ and was left intact, thank God, could be an interesting discussion one day about why my son and his half brother have different looking peni but I never would have put my son through that.

  51. thankfully intact says:

    Sorry, the doctor informed us that only 1 in 10 go under the knife, not my son.

  52. trish says:

    Both are torture to sweet innocent unwilling children and so both are wrong but a better comparison would be female circumcision to compare to male circumcision and they are both equally cruel and need to be stopped as all cruelty needs to be stopped . If we truly love someone we don’t want to harm them or make them feel pain . The research is clear now that the fundamentals of a persons personality are formed in our early years, newborn – age 5 , and this is true even though we don’t usually consciously remember before 5 but it certainly shapes who we are . For a young girls to be held down by the women that she is supposed to trust love her , her grandma , her aunties , her mother , while a medicine women cuts off her clitoris with a rusty razor blade WITHOUT ANESTHETIC ! because of brainwashed people who think that they are doing the right thing . FUCK the so called “right thing ” ! Always use your heart for LOVE and you will see through all the bullshit whether it be the culture of the moment or religion . Compassion4all

  53. trish says:

    This is just a brainwashing religious/cultural thing that some people are beginning to see through clearly so yes there are some people who still have the programmed ideas that circumcised men are more attractive BUT I know a lot of women where I live in a very conscious aware place in British Columbia where we have evolved to see reality . No one should want to cause pain and mutilate their perfectly healthy child and so when you wake up from the programming and see the beauty in nature’s design , the idea of a mutilated penis becomes disturbing . I would love my partner whether he is circumcised or not but I would be so sad that this was done to him as a sweet defenseless babe because of what he had to endure at the time and because from what I have read and what my male friends have told me from both sides is that there is quite a bit of sensitivity loss in their penis’ if they are circumcised . Don’t be so defensive of this act just because it was done to you . I am sure that your parents thought that they were doing the best thing for you . Think of what goes on in Africa . Women who love their daughters have them held down arms and legs when they are usually under 12 and without anesthetic and with a razor blade cut off the poor girls clitoris and cut and sew a few more mutilations ! Open your heart . It is not hard to know what the right thing to do is . Always choose the most compassionate thing to do . Jesus and Buddha and Mohamed and Krishna would all be happy with that . But most importantly choose compassion in all decisions because it will create a better world for you and us all .

  54. trish says:

    I live in a very conscious enlightened progressive community and care for children in my family daycare . All the boys in my care are intact and very happy . I did care for a couple of brothers recently though who just moved here and when I changed the little ones diapers I was actually shocked and saddened when I was affronted by this poor little guys penis that was circumcised . Very nice couple , probably did it for no better reason than daddy is cut . Read a great comment further down that gives all the medical and physiological reasons to leave natures design alone and stop torturing our little boys and girls . Yes I said girls as there are loving parents in Africa that think that they are doing the right thing by having their daughters circumcised, arms and legs held down while a medicine woman cuts off her clitoris usually under 12 years of age with NO ANESTHETIC ! Yes some girls do die from losing too much blood and infection but so do some baby boys over here die from circumcision as well. When a little baby died in Penticton B.C. from circumcision in 2002 the Pediatric Society spoke out and said that they would not interfere if doctors wanted to continue to perform circumcisions personally but that the Societies stance was that the procedure is unnecessary and not recommended . Have compassion for your child and please don’t do it . Read the comment by Kanyejack about 9 down from here and leave your precious baby boy intact . If you absolutely can’t unprogram your mind and you still want to get your child cut then please at least be sure to use anesthetic !!!!!

  55. trish says:

    Please don’t circumcise your boy . He is perfect just the way he is and the procedure is very painful .

  56. trish says:

    Please read all of these comments under this story and you will learn lots of medical reason to NOT circumcise your baby .

  57. Jess says:

    Getting your child snipped, isn’t exactly ‘mutilation’. I mean I can see it from an activists point of view where it just ‘shouldn’t be done’. However this procedure has protected against infections, the area is easier to keep clean.. There is many more pro’s to this procedure than ‘cons’. Where all an activist can give is a list of excuses against it like its ‘mutilation, and feeling bad for the baby’ when it’s a one time procedure the child will never remember and be completely unfazed by. Let parents do what it is they want. Everyone has their own reasons why and why not. Why get so mad over a decision that isn’t yours. Do wat u want with ur kids, but leave the decision of other parents to them. Their choice shouldn’t be affecting you.

  58. ml66uk says:

    Cutting off erogenous tissue sounds like mutilation to me, and there are plenty of men who wish they hadn’t been circumcised. I don’t think it’s reason able to call it “snipping”, when children have died or suffered serious injury as a result. That’s very rare, but why should it happen at all?

    It’s far easier to keep boys clean down there than girls, but we don’t use surgery to make it easier. Girls get far more urinary tract infections too, but again, routine preventative surgery would never be considered.

    It’s illegal even to make a pinprick on a girl’s genitals, and I think boys deserve the same protection. The choice should be theirs and theirs alone. It’s not like it can’t wait. Only around 10% of the world’s circumcised men were circumcised as infants, and 70% of the world’s men (88% of the world’s non-Muslim men) never get circumcised at all.

  59. Jess says:

    Again, you are more than welcome to do whatever it is you feel most comfortable doing with your children based on your own beliefs and opinion in the matter.
    However other people’s decisions whether to do the same or not, should really not affect you. Let other people do as they wish, because like you, they have their own beliefs and opinions on the subject. Who cares what other people do, you’re doing what you think is right at the end of the day, and so are they. Move on.
    It’s hilarious how you’re trying to force your opinions on others to try and make them do the same and agree with you, when everyone is entitled to their own opinions, so leave it alone.

  60. ml66uk says:

    So you’re ok with other parents cutting their daughters or beating their children?

  61. Jess says:

    Wow, you jumped from one extreme to another. Lmfao! 1. Parents don’t ‘cut’ their daughters. Depressed emo girls cut themselves. And 2. Child abuse is illegal. BOTH in which are 2 COMPLETELY SEPERATE TOPICS!! Stay focused on the subject at hand. I know a medical procedure just makes your top wanna pop off and you like to overexaggerate a common and medical procedure… Just remember, take your medication on a regular basis, try and find some peace in your life, and you’ll be just fine. K pumpkin? ;)

  62. ml66uk says:

    Just using your logic pumpkin. Female circumcision is a common and medical procedure in some countries, and many parents claim that it’s their right or even duty to have their daughters cut or to beat their children, and they use very similar arguments to the ones you’re using.

  63. Jess says:

    Female’s being done as well, for comfort some need it done, yes. I get it. And like you said, that is also a medical and normal procedure. That’s fine. However beating your child is still illegal and in no circumstance is that even relatable to a medical procedure. So no actually you are not using ‘my logic’. Do you also think that getting children vaccinated and taking them to their family doctor against their will is also wrong? Vaccinations are also medical procedures and some have even said there’s pros and cons to those as well… That’s relatable… Do you leave ur children’s health up to them too until they are old enough to decide themselves whether or not they want to be protected against certain illnesses? Comparing these cases to BEATING your child is so outlandish, and has no substance to your argument. If you want to talk about logic, you might want to educate yourself a little more and stop comparing 2 completely seperate instances.

  64. FrederickRhodes says:

    Those ‘other peoples” ignorant decision’ to have us sexually assaulted, traumatised and mutilated, as infants causes us their sons life long physical and psychological sexual dysfunctions, suicidal depression, learning disabilities,fear, mistrust,anger and hatred, turning some of us into mass murdering/suicidal religious fanatics, serial killers, It’s misandristic witchcraft done in infancy because it causes catatonic shock coma and amnesia, so the excessive nerve damage doesn’t show up until after we go through puberty. We have to protect ourselves as infants and not allow the witchdoctor medical ritual to be forced on us as infants, no matter whose our parents are. Infant circumcision is a bad choice, totally unnecessary, and with a little proper education can be prevented.

  65. FrederickRhodes says:

    When parents, doctor, nurses and the primary caregiver of the infants have a proper education on the neurological functions, the physiological development, and safe and proper hygiene, use, and care of both sexes prepuces then they don’t need, cause, want, or have faith in circumcision and their children can grow up whole and healthy and mentally stable.

  66. Jess says:

    Everyone I know who had it done which is, every guy I know… Is happy, glad they had it done, think other guys that didn’t are gross and completely mentally stable. The only person seeming like their world is gonna end and having a complete mental breakdown over it is you and any other activists here. Get on some medication because clearly you’ve got severe mental problems and your highly dilusional. Oh wait, I forgot, a needle or even medication might collapse your world too cuz it was prescribed by ‘witch doctors’ ROFLMFAO!!!

  67. ml66uk says:

    You said this: “Again, you are more than welcome to do whatever it is you feel most comfortable doing with your children based on your own beliefs and opinion in the matter.”
    “Let other people do as they wish, because like you, they have their own beliefs and opinions on the subject. Who cares what other people do, you’re doing what you think is right at the end of the day, and so are they.”

    People who want to have their daughters circumcised or beat their children use the exact same argument. That’s why it would be using your logic. I was just showing how your arguments could be used to defend something you wouldn’t accept, and I don’t see why my comments would be “outlandish”.

    Just because something isn’t illegal doesn’t make it right. Female circumcision of children was only made illegal in Canada in 1995 (so it’s hardly a “normal procedure”), and there are plenty of countries where it is both legal and commonly practised. Beating children used to be legal and commonplace too.

    Vaccination is hugely beneficial, and definitely to be encouraged, but many national medical organizations are against male circumcision of children. At least six of them have called for it to be banned, and in Australia “routine” circumcision is banned in public hospitals in all states except one. That’s despite the male circumcision rate in Australia being around 90% in the 1950’s.

  68. ml66uk says:

    The male circumcision rate in Canada has never gone over 50%, so it seems unlikely that every guy who know is circumcised, even if you’re in an area with a high rate.

    I’m not going to try to defend all of Frederick’s arguments, but there are lots of medical organizations that are against male circumcision, and I don’t think they’ve got severe mental problems or are highly delusional:

    The Royal Dutch Medical Association
    “The official viewpoint of KNMG and other related medical/scientific organisations is that non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors is a violation of children’s rights to autonomy and physical integrity.”

    Child Rights International Network
    “[30 September 2013] – At a meeting today in Oslo, the children’s ombudspersons from the five Nordic countries (Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, and Iceland), and the children’s spokesperson from Greenland, in addition to representatives of associations of Nordic paediatricians and pediatric surgeons, have agreed to work with their respective national governments to achieve a ban on non-therapeutic circumcision of underage boys.”

    German Pediatric Association
    “Therefore it is not understandable that circumcision of boys should be allowed but that of girls prohibited worldwide. Male circumcision is basically comparable with FGM types Ia and Ib that the Schafi Islamic school of law supports”

    Closer to home, the current position of the Canadian Paediatric Society is this:
    “Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed.”

    The College of Physicians & Surgeons of British Columbia said this:
    “Circumcision is painful, and puts the patient at risk for complications ranging from minor, as in mild local infections, to more serious such as injury to the penis, meatal stenosis, urinary retention, urinary tract infection and, rarely, even haemorrhage leading to death. The benefits of infant male circumcision that have been promoted over time include the prevention of urinary tract infections and sexually transmitted diseases, and the reduction in risk of penile and cervical cancer.”

    All my children have had all their shots btw.

  69. Jess says:

    Did i say i knew all of canada? Every guy i have slept with and know IS snipped. And that isnt saying there isnt any out there who aren’t, cuz there is. But just out of the guys i personally know, they are.
    Also there are plenty of activist associations who are just as brainwashed against circumcision as if it was a death pentalty against puppies lmao. Its really nothing to have a heart attack over. Do what u want with ur kids, no one cares. But leave the choice to do it or not up to other parents, leave it alone. Its no reason to get ur panties in a bunch.

  70. Jess says:

    Again, comparing circumcision to beating a child… That’s not even comparable. One is a medical procedure, the other is child abuse… You are NOT using ‘my logic’. You’re using your own…

  71. Amy says:

    In my opinion there is no problem with circumcision.. my son is circumcised.. just like his dad, grandfather, great grandfather and so on.
    Also I do believe that our country is so messed up because of people like you who always have to have things their way or think “its what god would of wanted”, “its what I think is best”. How about you let parents make their own decisions on how they want to raise their children, or how they want their childrens bodys to be. All your comments that I have been reading make you sound bat shit crazy.
    Why isn’t it enough that you didn’t get your kids circumcised? why should it be banned?
    because its not the way you want kids to grow up?
    because you think its cruel?
    well guess what that is your opinion and it doesn’t matter to anyone else but you.. and anyone who does take your comments and suggestions into consideration should really get their head examined.
    you do what you will with your children and we’ll all do what we chose with ours.

  72. Amy says:

    Well my dear, you’re right.. you never said you knew all of Canada but you probably don’t care to know the way all of Canada feels, because my guess is you’re not a control freak like “ml66uk” is making themselves appear.

  73. Amy says:

    This is clearly a very sensitive subject for some people, but if you look clearly into what reality is you would see that it is 50-50.
    There are women out there who chose to circumcise their boys because its what their family has done, it was what they prefer in a man, or just what they wanted for their little boy.
    some of you are saying that it is bad to circumcise and it is cruel, well that is just one opinion, stop getting all hostile when people are commenting that they got it done on their child and they think its aright.
    I have never heard anyone ever say “you’re circumcised well that’s dirty”, nor have I ever heard about any circumcised boys/men ever get infections because they’re “snipped” as some would say, but I sure as hell have heard MANY MANY stories about men being uncircumcised and the doctors forcing them to get “snipped” because of a bad infections, or because the skin has started to grow back over the penis. Men who are well into their 20’s-30’s and even 40’s, Don’t you think that, that would be more cruel for a man then it would be an infant?
    and while we’re on the topic of why you should circumcise a man..
    well because it looks better, and a woman who has been with both circumcised, and noncircumcised men, no matter how much a noncircumcised man showers.. you still get that “cheesey” smell, because of the moisture getting trapped under the foreskin and causing a stink..
    so please, if you’re trying to convince anyone not to get their child circumcised, please read up more about circumcision before you start making such terrible, and hostile remakes..

    Knowledge is just the beginning ;)

  74. Jess says:

    Lol you’re right. That’s for damn sure.

  75. FrederickRhodes says:

    You sound like an angry ignorant man hating lying witch spreading your mentally disturbed pig headed hateful views against men. I understand why, but you don’t. You have sex with a large variety of circumcised men but they can’t please you sexually so you have to hop into the next available bed. The apathetic circumcised men treat you like a bloody piece of meat to masterbate in and show you no respect, love, or care, so you want to punish men as infants by forcing circumcision on them completing and continuing a cycle of abuse upon abuse.

  76. FrederickRhodes says:

    Every good hunter knows. It’s better for you to kill your prey/children than to sexually wound them and let them go, because now your prey/children whom you sexually mutilated as infants are growing up and coming back to bite you in the ass when you’re not looking.

  77. FrederickRhodes says:

    With your lack of knowledge/logic, then your labia and clitoral hoods are also useless meat flaps with no sexual functions that harbor germs and bacteria hiding in all your nooks and crannies as well, and most every boy you have sex with wishes your parents excised those loose skin flaps in infancy so you could be tighter and look like pre pubescent little girls for their pleasure. It’s us men and women who grew up circumcised who have started the Intactivist movement, and men who were fooled into being circumcised as adults do complain and are joining our movement to help educate the followers of your ignorant superstitious misandristic psychotic delusions.

  78. ml66uk says:

    Those are national medical organizations, not just “brainwashed” “activist associations”

    Like I pointed out before, parents who want to cut their daughters or beat their children also say things like your last four sentences.

    Since you referred to a death penalty against puppies, are you aware that babies have died from circumcision? Ryleigh McWillis died in Vancouver, and there have been at least two other deaths in Canada, though the medics usually try to blame something other than circumcision. The company that makes the Mogen clamp went out of business after two multi-million dollar payouts awarded against them. The record payout for a botched circumcision is US$22.8 million. It was said at the time that the victim “will never be able to function sexually as a normal male and will require extensive reconstructive surgery and psychological counseling as well as lifelong urological care and treatment by infectious disease specialists.”
    Sure, cases like that are very rare, but why should they happen at all? If you look up the galleries of botched jobs, one thing that may surprise you is just how many jobs were botched cosmetically, rather than medically. Skin tags, skin bridges, sideways curvature, and hair growing half way up the shaft are not normal, but would not be counted as medical complications. Some of the botches are simply hideous.

  79. ml66uk says:

    Firstly, I’d like to disassociate myself from Frederick’s remarks.

    A ban simply wouldn’t work in Canada, but several national medical organizations have proposed bans in Europe, or said they’d support a ban if it wouldn’t drive the practice underaround. I don’t think they need their heads examined, and like I keep saying, there are limits on what parents can do with their children (eg female circumcision, beating children, withholding medical treatment), even if they think they’re doing the right thing, and even if they’re happy for other parents not to do it.

    Unless you’re Jewish or Muslim, it’s unlikely that all of your son’s great grandfathers were circumcised, and their fathers before them were probably all intact. If you want to hear something that really is batshit crazy, It’s worth remembering that no-one except for Jewish people and Muslims would even be having this discussion if it weren’t for the fact that 19th century doctors thought that :
    a) masturbation caused various physical and mental problems (including epilepsy, convulsions, paralysis, tuberculosis etc), and
    b) circumcision stopped masturbation.

    Both of those sound ridiculous today I know, but that’s how they thought back then, and that’s how non-religious circumcision got started. If you don’t believe me (and I was skeptical when I first heard that), then google “A Short History of Circumcision in North America In the Physicians’ Own Words”, or find any medical reference to masturbation or male circumcision between around 1850-1950.

    Heck, they even passed laws against “self-pollution” as it was called.

    Over a hundred years later, circumcised men keep looking for new ways to defend the practice.

    I don’t know if you saw this from one of my earlier comments:
    “For studies including boys born after 1995, there was a strong correlation between country-level (n=9) autism/ASD prevalence in males and a country’s circumcision rate (r=0.98). A very similar pattern was seen among U.S. states and when comparing the 3 main racial/ethnic groups in the U.S.”
    Bauer, Kriebel, 2013 pubmed 23656698

    Isn’t that enough reason not to go ahead with an elective medical procedure on a newborn baby?

  80. Jess says:

    Those kinds of circumcisions are performed by doctors who are not specialists and honestly, should not be performing such procedures. That’s why it is important to go and interview different doctors until you find the one who you like. Not to mention the parents were probably handing their son off to the cheapest doctor they could find, therefore didn’t care about their own child, just their pocketbook. Medical procedures even like Botox and so forth, do get performed illegally by practicing doctors who lost their jobs and do their work out of their basements. When looking for a doctor and a good one, what you want to look at is how many years experience they have, their location, who they work for, bigger $ usually means a better job (u get what u pay for). Etc. There is reasons why a job was done badly.

  81. Jess says:

    I don’t hate men. I love men, and I love the father of my child. He’s circumsized and he does more than satisfy me sexually. Why go bed hopping? Being circumsized has nothing to do with how the sex will be… It doesn’t change how you get off…
    You sound like you have some serious angermanagement issues and delusions you may want to bring up with a psychologist, and get on some medication.
    You have a lot of mental problems stemming from maybe…Not being circumsized and the jealously of those who are?…. LMFAO
    Do you know how moronic you sound when you come up with such outlandish accusations exactly like the one I just threw at you in that last paragraph? You’re fucked… No body will take what you say seriously because mentally, you make no sense! Go get some psychological help asap!

  82. Jess says:

    Amen to that! I fully agree! Finally somebody else here who is sane! Thank you!

  83. FrederickRhodes says:

    I was circumcised as an infant because my mother told me that if mothers don’t circumcised their sons as infants, they will grow up and spread diseases to other mothers daughters. It caused me to develop keratinized and desensitised glans. Your circumcised husband has a rough keratinized desensitised exposed glans which causes him to take excessive time to reach climax. You claim he pleases you now, but his excessive rough dry sex will cause you vaginal erosion and lead to your early death from cervix/uterine fibroids/cancers unless you get a total hysterectomy, just like in the USA where 1:3 women need a total hysterectomy before they turn 60 because 60+ years ago, they were circumcising 90% of us men as infants. Time will show, but you may already be dead and too late for you to warn your children about the long term consequences from punishing the child for the sin of ignorance of the parents.

  84. Wabbitwady says:

    “the area is easier to clean” It would be easier to clean behind your ears if they weren’t in the way…but we don’t cut them off.

  85. Tom says:

    First of all, you are supposed to insist the procedure is not painful, not that it is done without numbing but you do not care because they won’t remember. Secondly, when you say “it doesn’t affect you”, you are admitting you do not care if it is wrong. Then you go on blabbering pointless things like “people will do what they want. People will do what they think is right.” In case you were unaware, which you seem to be, you cannot simple do whatever you want in society. That is established and has been for ten thousand plus years.

  86. Tom says:

    “Do what you want with your kids, no one cares.” So child beating is now back on the table? You need to make up your mind. Is forced circumcision justifiable or do you not care about the rights of others.

  87. Tom says:

    “It’s up to parents to decide how they want their children’s bodies to be.” So would you be happy if your parents had given you a sex change? Or even so much as a nose job or tattoo?(all of which are illegal to give to children by force). Or maybe you will simply say anything to attempt to rationalize yourself instead of admitting you are biased because of tradition?

  88. Jess Pittman says:

    I never said ‘I don’t care that it is wrong’. There is pros and cons to EVERY FUCKING MEDICAL PROCDURE!! Get off your goddamn high horse, for all anyone knows, your a goddamn hobbit that lives under a bridge and holds signs up for a living preaching outrageous beliefs. I don’t give a shit who you are. Fact in the matter is, people WILL do what is right based on their beliefs and their own opinions. You are wasting your time and energy trying to make the world see things YOUR way… You are no body, get over it. You have your opinion, just as everybody else has theirs. Discussion over.

  89. Tom says:

    “As for the gentleman falsely proclaming percentages (please do your research), and thinking women enjoy the foreskin..i should not have to remind you that people say whatever they must to make their partners feel good about themselves.

    To end on a side note, I’ve been with two British women whom were both relieved and delighted to see I was cut (mutilated) and shared their disdain for the foreskin with me.”

    You seem to be unaware that you just contradicted yourself.

  90. Tom says:

    Yes because in Africa they do not have access to condoms and they have an HIV epidemic. The US has a high HIV rate and it is the only advanced country that still circumcises.

  91. Jess Pittman says:

    You must have some big ass ears if they get it the way of cleaning behind them… You don’t need to cut them off, but if you want to and it helps you, go right ahead ;)

  92. Jovi says:

    Wait until they experience good erection, thats the right timing and means their body is mature enough. in that also they can decide on their own body to be mutilate or not but on the way try to educate them the benefit of being snipped.

    we’re a brothers of five and have our circumcision during our teens, now i had three boys and the youngest is 11yo (uncircumcised) but never had a problem with infection ever since. the key, during their infants i make sure to clean the penis (don’t retract) every time i change diapers and point it upward so as not to block their ability to urinate. in toddler days, when i potty train them, i teach them how to clean their private parts too. i sometimes bathe together with them, as to make sure they’re doing the right thing.

    now my second child is about to have his procedure at age 16, right time without fear and mature enough for this kind of process.

    education and patience for the kids will rule out these problem. these works for me, hope it will with others.

  93. ml66uk says:

    I agree that people should be allowed to decide for themselves, but what is this “benefit of being snipped”? Most national medical organizations recommend against it.

    Personally, I’d pay a year’s salary rather than be circumcised. That little bit of skin makes a big difference.

  94. ml66uk says:

    A second peer-reviewed study has found a significant correlation between infant male circumcision and autism/ASD (Frisch, Simonsen, 2015):
    “”Results: With a total of 4986 ASD cases, our study showed that regardless of cultural background circumcised boys were more likely than intact boys to develop ASD before age 10 years (HR?=?1.46; 95% CI: 1.11–1.93). Risk was particularly high for infantile autism before age five years (HR?=?2.06; 95% CI: 1.36–3.13).”

  95. Jaygee says:

    For years medical professionals have demonized the foreskin, attributing it to all kinds of maladies. Ultimately in the Victorian era, circumcision was touted as a cure of not only paraplegia and blindness but the most vile of venal sins: masturbation. It probably helped somewhat. Kellogg, the cereal maker went so far as to recommend the procedure be done without anesthetic since the pain attendant with the procedure would have a “salutary” effect upon the young masturbator.
    I’m not going to wax loquacious about this issue but one driving factor in the prevalence of circumcision in North American society is that the foreskin is trivialized as just a flap of skin. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. The foreskin is a highly-enervated double-walled system of erogenous tissue with highest concentration of fine-touch receptors on the human body.
    Ultimately the debate has to include the rights of the child. Do we own our children? Can we take away a functioning part of their body without their consent?
    Circumcision may lower the risk of HIV. Does that justify amputating healthy tissue in a minor? Removal of the breast buds will certainly curtail a lot of breast cancer in adults. Does that give us the right to operate on infant girls?
    Something to think about.

  96. chris says:

    is circumcision illegal like sex change or tatttos on children ? didnt think so ..so there for you have just made your argument Irelevant

  97. ml66uk says:

    Twenty years ago, female circumcision wasn’t illegal either though, but that didn’t mean it wasn’t wrong.

  98. UNCUT thank you father.. says:

    She does seem mentally ill no doubt. No doubt at all.

  99. Guest says:

    Judging be her typing she seems very immature and probably had a baby becuase she never truly felt loved or appreciated in her life. So she had a kid so people would pay attention to her briefly and so she has someone to love her.

  100. UNCUT thank you father.. says:

    She mentions you need medication to different people on this post which means shes on it.. You cant argue with women like this. Shes damaged and needs help..

  101. UNCUT thank you father.. says:

    You are so childish its frightening you had a child yourself.

  102. UNCUT thank you father.. says:

    Your an idiot. Please dont have a child.

  103. UNCUT thank you father.. says:

    Ive never had a uti and have no stds because I shower daily like you and wear a condom. Your an idiot.

  104. UNCUT thank you father.. says:

    Its called shower ur an idiot. Why would a woman sleep with a smelly person lol.. If a man doesnt shower he will smell terrible after one day. Youd know if you have ever been near one.

  105. Jess Pittman says:

    Lol I’m not on meds, but clearly some people need to be. You have a warped view of reality and there’s something seriously wrong with that. That isn’t me putting you down, just stating fact.
    Like I’ve said before, the only ones complaining of circumcision is you activists. Nobody that I’ve ever met thats been done has ever complained about it, infact they would make jokes about those who weren’t.
    Also, don’t EVER bring up my child, that’s fucking low, and you have the audacity to call me ‘immature’? Look in the mirror hunny!
    I had a baby with the person I love, and I am an adult and can do so. 15-16 year olds get pregnant for attention. Who the hell do you think you are? No body ever made themselves look like a bigger person by making others look small. You’re pathetic

  106. Hearmenow says:

    It’s spelled you’re not your… Idiot ;)

  107. Amy says:

    Good to know that a mature conversation can lead to this..
    If you don’t like what I said that is totally up to you, way to be immature about the situation..

  108. WokeUpLikeThis1989 says:

    Actually, sorry to inform you but uti’s are far more common in female girls, and antibiotics always are suffice for these instances . UTIs are only reduced, between the ages of 0 and 1 if you are circumcised. Keep in mind that they don’t mention that bleeding, infection and recorrective surgery are common for males immediately/soon after their circumcision. Many times the parents don’t notice because the baby’s penis is raw/bloody from the circumcision, and is about an inch. A common infection from circumcision includes Meatitis. It mainly has to do with an infection of the urethral opening caused by the exposure to urine and feces during the healing process which lasts between 2-4 weeks. Another side effect would be meatal stenosis, which is the closing of the urethral opening. The myths you’re talking about was paraded by doctors that have the same ignorance level as yourself. If being left intact was such a threat, I think evolution would have done intact men in. Also considering if women didn’t prefer men intact, worldwide there wouldn’t such a precedent amount left intact (around 80% intact). Sorry to say that by definition (might not be labeled by law yet), you have a mutilated penis. Don’t try to say that your keratinized glans are okay because they are not.

  109. WokeUpLikeThis1989 says:

    prevalent*…. I apologise

  110. WokeUpLikeThis1989 says:

    Insane*….don’t worry I have your back when it comes to spelling.

  111. MarkWil66122450 says:

    Do the Dr’s. at sick kids explain the human rights part of neonatal circumcision? Do they explain that there is no medical authority in the developed world who condone neonatal circumcision even the American pediatriac society sais it should not be done, the one and only medical body that does not come right out and sey don’t do it is WHO that is based in the USA where Dr’s get rich from mutilating baby boys and even richer by trafficking human body parts (pieces of your son’s penis) for profit to make moisturising creams like SkinMedica. That the practice of circumcising minors is being systematically outlawed in most of Europe due to the fact that neonatal circumcision is a violation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child in 1989. That parental consent is not valid for elective surgeries on minors when it comes to remove healthy body parts? Do they explain how very similar male and female circumcisions are and the option available for female circumcision or the health benefits and risks associated with female circumcision? In Egypt about 90% of women are circumcised and justify it using exactly the same arguments as are used in Canada for male circumcision. Egyptian women think uncircumcised women are unusual or weird. By the way circumcision of female minors is also against the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child in 1989 and a criminal offence in most western countries. I guess it is just too much of a money maker for the circumciser to give up on male circumcision.

  112. kevin says:

    What a bunch of genital mutilators you are! Just leave the baby’s penis alone. He has the right to an intact, non mutilated, body. Why do you think it is ok to cut off a normal, healthy, functional and sensuous part of the human body just because of your personal preference or because the father was circumcised? This mutulation is against medical ethics. This is very in humane. If you tried to do this to a girl, it would be illegal, but cutting a boy is just fine, crazy.
    Your article makes infant circumcision sound so ho-hum, “once it’s over, it’s over”.This is far from the truth! The foreskin that is removed is the most sensitive and nerve rich part of the male body. The is necessary for normal sex, he will thank you as an adult for not mutilating and desensitizing his penis. Circumcision removes up to half the skin on the baby’s penis and removes more than half of the most sensitive tissue on the penis. I was circumcised as an infant and I’m still pissed off that I was mutilated without my permission. I’m now troubled with loss or sensitivity and sexual dysfunction because of my circumcision. No intact man would ever volunteer to be circumcised, intact men love their penises and the foreskin is the best part. Circumcision is on the decline in Canada, thankfully, and the overwhelming majority of baby boys are no longer circumcised.

  113. kevin says:

    Do a little research and you will discover that circumcision was first advocated by a puritanical Victorian era Doctor, John Harvey Kellogg in the 19th century as a way to stop boys from mastrubating and to make sex unpleasant for men. He also recommended women’s genitals be dosed with carbolic acid to ruin their sexual pleasure. Do you really want to be buying into this demented philosophy by circumcising your son?

    In the developed world, the only country that circumcise the majority of their baby boys is the US at about 56%, that’s down from nearly 90% in the 1970s. Circumcision is very rare in the UK and the rest of Europe. Australia and New Zealand used to have very high circumcision rates but now is less than 5%.

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